Tommy Lee joins Backstreet boys??

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Originally posted by IH Rich Rags:
Andy, Ginger is another great example. Ginger is a pretty decent guitar player. He is certainly no slouch but The Wildhearts are loved by alot of people becuase they are a great live band and write great songs. Without great songs you are just a musician.

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<font size="4" face="Arial">I'll have to disagree with that one there, sorry. Ginger hides his skills well by not being a flashy guitarist. But one listen to his songs and you know the man is a monster of a guitarist and musician. His timings and changes are amazing. That is where his true talent shines through, the man might be the greatest rythm guitarist to ever walk the face of the earth, and make no mistake, it takes talent to be good at rythm.

As for the Crue/Corabi experiment: I always thought that one didn't work due to the fact that The Crue was beginning a slight decline to begin with, the music industry was shifting away from what they were, the band decided to do a voice change, and then they brought in a new voice. I don't think it mattered what they did at that point, they were screwed to begin with. Do you know how much better Generation Swine did over Motley Crue? If the numbers are close, you will have to exclude the sales that came about due to it being THE RETURN OF VINCE album that it was kind of pushed as.

I think we all feel pretty much the same way, we just go off on different tangents here and there. I do see the extreme value in bands with flash such as Dream Theater. I personally can't stand the shit, never could. But to write them off is doing yourself an injustice. If you turn away from a band because they have "talent pouring out their asses", then you might be missing some wonderful stuff (fortunatley for you, Dream Theater is NOT such an example, although Mike Portnoy's side project band Transatlantic had a pretty damn cool second album, the first bored me to tears and killed my Prog Rock enjoyment side forever).

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Stick- Before they were signed to Arista they were told to ditch there female lead singer. That is why they got signed.

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<font size="4" face="Arial">Was that Kim, or did they have somebody else singing for them then? I thought Kim left on her own choice. But if she was booted for the label, then they deserved the failure, as she was the only thing that made that friggin' band, as was proved with the piece of shit "Heavy Bag" release. Here is where I will say the image and stage performance worked. But she also had an AMAZING voice. But that little girl man, what a voice and performer!!!

The worse thing about this travesty of a tune,
is it sounds shit even from a pop music per-
spective. Girls Aloud sound like Death Angel
when compared to it. It also reeks of contractual
obligation. The boom-banga-banga stuff he did
before (with Anderson squirming about on the
bed) was great. Maybe Tommy thought: 'We'll, if
I'm forced to write a solo album, I'll do one
that is just plain tits'?

Don't know, don't care.

D.










Good times, my arsicle. Sub-Sugar Ray claptrap,
more like.

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Originally posted by IH Rich Rags:
Some interesting points. At no point I am saying that you can get by without any skill as a player. Continuing to use Crue as the example here, if you have read the Dirt, Nikki Sixx, Tommy. and MM all make it absolutely clear that they were still lacking the spark to ignite the fire until Vince joined. I am just of the opinion that chemistry is a more powerful ingridient to a band than great mucisianship. Furthermore, the Dirt leaves you in no doubt as to Vince Neils agenda. VN wanted to be a star and shag as many women as he could. Fair play to him. He has never pretended to be much more than a horny old beach bum with a fair pair of lungs on him. Look what happened when Corabi joined. The Scream were a far more accomplished set of musicians than Crue and Corabi is technically a far better singer than Vince. He's also far more versatile guitarist than MM. He has a much bigger range and a much richer and soulful voice.
However, all these technical attributes add up to squat. The fact remains that, despite Crue's constant attempts of convice themselves, the chemistry was just that bit off. Coarabi was just too in awe for the fact that he was now in MC, plus he was left in no doubt that he was a hired gun and not a real member. Mick ends up playing half the guitar parts becuase Tommy, Nikki & The producer thought Corabi was a better player than Mick. Mick now dispondent and feeling like a foreskin at a bamitzvah. The end result was a very competent album that no one bought. The fans could not really accept Corabi (and Guitar) as a Crue front man and the wheels fell off the band. Re Enter Vince and the magic was back again. I still think that the X factor is all important. Without it you are just a bunch of guys who can play (maybe brilliantly) There are f**king millions of those about but not everyone has that X.
And in reference to LOTTI. I saw them shit loads of times over the years and, despite Buttz's self depreciation, (That's a first) the reason everyone loved them was becuase they had mountains of presonality and charisma. Fat Boy was the ring master of this mad burlesque circus. Hovis, Shuff, Dave who cant Behave, Salvador darlek, Vom, The Incedible Drinking man, Billy thre Willy! It was glam rock variety show!
You only have to read his posts on here to realize Buttz could have been a comedian. He was (and remains) an entertainer. That is why people loved LOTTI. Fuck musicianship. it was just good simple pop tunes and a great show.

<font color="#FF0000"><font size="1">[ August 05, 2005 02:55 AM: Message edited by: IH Rich Rags ]</font></font>

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<font size="4" face="Arial">Totally agree.

<font color="#FF0000" size="1">[ August 06, 2005 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Bedlam ]</font>

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Originally posted by IH Rich Rags:
Andy, Ginger is another great example. Ginger is a pretty decent guitar player. He is certainly no slouch but The Wildhearts are loved by alot of people becuase they are a great live band and write great songs. Without great songs you are just a musician.
Up in Yorkshie we had a local guitarist who was widley touted as the 'best guitarist in town' He worked in a local music store and on a saturday afternoon he would sit there surrounded by hordes of oiky little metalheads showing off his fret-tapping and pentatonic scales and all that bollocks. He could play everything like the record. Anything by Van Halen Ywigie, Frank Marino, you name it. And could he write a song? Could he fuck! Plays in a club band knocking out Cher songs.

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<font size="4" face="Arial">Yep, I played in a band pre Rich Rags and we had a guitar player who was technically brilliant, but looked like a professor and was like a cardboard cut out on stage, he was fired and replaced by someone who looked better, had stage presence and played with tons more feel for the tunes. Genius didn't cut it.

Sorry to harp on but Ian, what about that guy I followed into The Rags ? he was a bit of a smart arse with his fancy fills,flams and parradiddles, I thought how do I follow that shit.


Whatever.

I always thought the Corabi Crue CD and "Shout" were there best CD's. Corabi IMO was way cooler than Vince and the voices don't even compare. I'm partial to harsher voices myself. When I first saw the Hooligan's Holiday Video I thought, now this is more like it. Unfortunately more people enjoyed Vinces caterwauling and that style of music wasn't enjoying a lot of popularity at the time.

Here's a really interesting "recent" interview with Corabi about Motley and other things. He claims the Motley 94 CD went on to sell a million copies.

http://www.metal-rules.com/zine/inde...=148&Itemid=54

In other news I saw the Foo Fighters last night. What a great show! Total energy and entertaining!

<font color="#FF0000" size="1">[ August 06, 2005 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Hazardous ]</font>

Once more, another great example of invention and attitude outweighing musicianship. The Foo Fighters

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Originally posted by IH Rich Rags:
...invention and attitude outweighing musicianship. The Foo Fighters

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<font size="4" face="Arial">Not sure what they invented. Also funny that people on this board will spend an eternity bashing the hell out of Nirvana, but then have anything decent to say about Foo.

Plus, "attitude"? That band has becomeone of the worst examples of "sell-out" out there. The first album is nothing but "Nirvana" style, but done in a mediocre form, then they went onto have the brilliant song "Monkey Wrench", and everything else on that album gace Celine Dion a run for her money in the "balls" area.

No, Foo Fighters is an example of smart PR work and forcing shit down the throats of a public starving for a REAL RnR band. Foo is nothing more than commercial BS. If you want to praise them for being big, you may as well also be singing the praise of Jessica Simpson. Grohl is an amazingly talented drummer. But they are a HIGH profile band, and they were that before they even got signed. They were going to make it no matter what. You can't compare them to anybody.

Oh, and Grohl not using talent? Hmmm, since he is the only one playing on the first Foo album, and that was widely known, I would say there is a ton of talent being shown on that album. Remember, talent is not all flash.

Stewart Copeland gave a drum seminar a few years ago. He walked into the class, sat behind the kit, and proceeded to play a straight beat for 10 minutes...no fills...nothing...just the beat. He stood up, said "most people forget that the most important part and hardest part of being a drummer is keeping the time." And then he walked out.

Harry Cody, one of the most talented people in the Glam scene. Showed his outrageous skill on one or two songs. The rest of the time, you could hear his brilliance just in how he played a simple riff.

Bernie Dresel. The drummer for Brian Setzer for the past 10 years. On the recent Setzer release Rockabilly Riot, Bernie playes all of the songs straight, exactly as they were done on the original Sun recordings. Compairing those originals to Bernie's playing, you can just HEAR the extra talent and skill. Bernie isn't doing anything different, but it is still there.

Again, talent is not all flash. Again, you need a decent amount of talent to be signed. No talent pieces of crud are NOT signed in bands. Those people get replaced. If you are a solo performer, with looks and a decent voice (ala Ashlee Simpson and Avril), you get signed, studioized, and back by accomplished studio musicians.

For every example you can give of successful bands all about "looks and attitude", I can counter with the same for "talented". But you can also counter with a failed "talent" band, and I can probably counter with a million failed crap bands. Hell, the Glam community itself is littered with the shit. It became convinced that you just need to "look cool and be cool", and it flooded itself.

No offense in that post meant to fans of Foo, such as Sandy. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I love Grohl, I just always thought they were lacking on what they could have been. For a guy who loves the music he does and came from such a brilliant band (the DC punk band Scream), I was always let down by the lack of PUNCH I got out of Foo.

Interesting to know that about Taylor. I always wondered what the extent of his and Grohl's relationship was. They almost come across as a couple. He had a drug problem, eh? I guess working with Alanis will do that to anybody.
[img]wink.gif[/img]

Carl have you gone mad? do I need to come down there and dilute you with beer???

but done in a mediocre form, then they went onto have the brilliant song "Monkey Wrench", and everything else on that album gace Celine Dion a run for her money in the "balls" area.

Again the sputterings of a madman!.....Everlong is an amazing song on "Colour and Shape" If that song doesn't have balls I don't know what does. To compare Foo Fighters and Celine Dion is ludicrous, I won't even acknowledge you said that. I've never bashed Nirvana, they were one of the few grunge bands I liked.

The 11,000 people at the concert seemed overjoyed to sing along to all the songs. I didn't see any PR people forcing them at gunpoint to sing along.

Carl just because he was in an incredibly famous band, that isn't a given that his band will make it. Look at Krist Novaselic?? I can think of many example of musicians who were in huge bands and didn't make it on their own. Look at the cast of Seinfeld, they're have been probably 4 spin off series that have all failed miserably and that was one of the biggest TV shows in history. So you're theory doesn't quite float.

I'm not praising them for being big, I said they were good musicians. That was my point. It's taken them 10 years and a lot of hard work to headline arena's. This is the first tour through Vancouver that they headlined a big Arena. So you do a diservice by demeaning their accomplishments, saying that it was guaranteed by Grohl's celebrity status.

I agree with your other points about talent not needing to be 300 bpm or a million guitar notes.